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skwheel...a skwal derivate

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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby obi one » 12 Oct 2010 21:57

skwaloo wrote:More the wheel is larger, more you can take inclination to carve with the same larger board.



For bindings :

With the Oxelo type for wheels I think you dont have to make big effort to inclinate the board. And it's allows you to make simple and light system.

I think only scratching strap arround the foot can be proper.




ok, this is my skwheel proto n. 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAoXK6SHonM

...but according to your suggestions I will probably buy and then "cannibalize" parts of the oxelo...possibly to study better the advantage of the "wheel return springs"...

strap around the foot is improper...you need almost a hard-boot to keep your feet safe and protected :evil:

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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby skwaloo » 12 Oct 2010 22:32

It's make me happy to see that my proposal is not too stupid. :)

I think the problem is the hard-boots bindings. It should be possible to quickly remove at least 1 foot to avoid falling...

I am looking forward to seeing your next prototype in action. Good luck.
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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby skwaloo » 20 Oct 2010 13:49

It's not the skwal utilization, but I find this video beautiful :

http://vimeo.com/13359521
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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby obi one » 20 Oct 2010 22:36

yes superb clip...the first time I saw it a couple of weeks ago I was really impressed by the editing of it even more than by the HD level...

longboards are teaching something for our new skwal clips, especially for editing and shooting in HD...

thanks skwaloo :)

PS
the skwheel proto clips are coming soon again....
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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby skwaloo » 21 Oct 2010 08:43

thank to you for your active development.
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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby obi one » 30 Oct 2010 23:24

here we go again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n32gKyJ6D9A

This clip shows proto skwheel n. 4...that's all about racing ...

still back on 4 wheels...testing and studying the best effects and conditions...

that's all by now... :D



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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby shama » 02 Nov 2010 12:08

Add two directional whell like freeboard and you are in place :wink:
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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby obi one » 03 Nov 2010 21:18

hi Shama
will certainly give it a try with the directional wheels :)

waiting for some ather clips from your side...and who may never know that we shoot something together over the seaon... :wink:

keep in touch

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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby sabestian » 17 Nov 2011 18:17

A few thoughts, some of that I already shared with Obi One.

I have a bit of experience in longboarding (carving and sliding), and I own a few pairs of trucks and wheels. I tested every setup I could to get experience. Now I am testing different trucks with different bushings, trying wedging/dewedging on the front and the rear... I am trying to find a proper lean-to-turn ratio and bushing resistance at the front and the rear.

For now I found that Randal II 180 longboard trucks with flipped hangars and softest cone bushings (also flipped) work best. Zero wedging. I also tried Holeys with smokey bushings, but being 60deg trucks they turn much sharper with much less lean, which does not resemble skwal's tilting on the edge sensation.

For wheels I simply use Abec11 Grippins for no slip at all, BigZigs work well, too. I would imagine that any grippy wheel would be allright.

I created two skwheel boards, about 1m long, one with a little flex and the other with no flex. The one with flex works much better.

Haven't tried any bindings yet, just grip-tape, I worry that nailing your feet to the board may be dangerous on the tharmac in case of falling. I also noticed, that riding without bindings makes me extremely aware of the weight placement (feet clock!!!). So it may be actually beneficial for learning process - I already noticed a lot of improvement with push-pull/feet clock coordintation. But I can see clearly how much more control I would have it my feet were somehow fixed to the board. It would be insane!

Frankly, I think it is not necessary to worry about radical skwhweeling. I honestly believe it is not possible on the asphalt due to limitations of grip. It is not the edge digging into snow, these are just wheels that will slip if you apply excessive lateral force to them. I will be more than happy to be proven wrong, though! :mrgreen:

Sliding gloves, elbow guards are a must, protective/sliding pants and knee guards are highly recommended. Of course the helmet is absolutely obligatory!

Here is first hour riding the prototype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFKLCjMIeE8. You can see me trying to apply feet-clock, push-pull and even tilting. The fact that I am even able to try these is a proof of the idea working.

In summary:
1. I think the skwheel great technique and balance learning platform. Pushing it up the hill is a great exercise for your quads.
2. At this stage, I doubt it is good enough as a standalone board. I mean, if someone does not ride skwal, he will not see any benefits of the skwheel over a skateboard, longboard, freebord, T-board, whatever-board.
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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby obi one » 19 Nov 2011 01:47

yes,
skwheel is useful for skwal training purposes,...the skwal thechnique for push/pull, tilting and feetclock are evident to me on you nice footage...bravo! :D
who may never know what skwheel will be in a couple of years...

another video from you sebastian is important,...next time put the camera closer to your action....

a single suggestion: when I did my clips I looked for most steep roads avail...the steeper, the better to me :)

I confirm my full apppreciation to your developments

message to other skwalers:
anybody else thought to put one foot in front of the other on a longboard or skate or other boards like...?

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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby sabestian » 30 Nov 2011 13:06

Another session... The skwheel proves itself to be extremely helpful!

The Randal tracks' hangers were unflipped, also wheels were changed for Abec11 BigZigs (lemon) as they are faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBkeO2UfIlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twheUZrcHq8
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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby obi one » 02 Dec 2011 09:18

well done! do you see the woman looking at you on the second clip :D she's puzzled...

listen, those two clips are gold...tecnica-skwal is evident, I like the radius of your skwheel turns. you just need to test al least the a front binding, the back binding ...not necessary at the moment.

another aspect that we did not considered...pherhaps irrelevant i do knot know yet...looking at your feet in the first clip I see that some cants (front and back) might be experimented....


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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby Philobédo » 02 Dec 2011 11:09

Hi Skwheel builders...

I read all the posts and see all video clips with a lot of interest

I'm Agree that skwheel can be a good think to train and prepare beginner during summer for future skwal activity , skwheel is good to work his balance and the feeling of push pull.

I think i have to test a skwheel before speaking but my opinion is that using skateboard or longboard normal wheels (fixed by "trucks") is not the good way.

Sebastian say something interesting explaining his feeling with the difference between edge on the snow and skateboard trucks on the road, and i also think that a radical différence exist.

It's true that skwheel comportment on the road need same position, same balance and a part of the push pull technic to run well.

But the repartition, timing, position of different forces applicable to your body during the ride, and the forces and pushes you have to apply on the board to control the skwheel during a turn are different with Skwal.

Ok you get more balance and push pull feeling, but the risk is to get bad body position and bad reflex for your next skwal sessions.

That the same with mono-waterski,(and everyone know how this sport is similar with skwal), a big part of the technics are the same with skwal, but the traction of the boat need an adaptation of these technics and finally by one side you get technical profits but by the other side bad reflex when you take your skwal again.
In my case my own skwal technic with all my skwal reflexes slowed down my progress with waterski.

My opinion is that one : At this stage, skwheel will going to bring more advantages than négative points for begginers. But not for good skwalers who mastery skwal technic.

So we have to find how a skwheel can need the same technic than skwal to run well...and skateboard trucks aren't the solution.

Obi one, next things are a short explanation of what i wanted to discuss with you during last ESA meeting, but you can't come...

My idea is using 2 lines of independents and unidirectional little wheels (3, 5 or 7 wheels by line, depend of the board dimension), 1 line from each side of the board.

With this we have 2 possibilities :
- Using a straight board with some flex : the 2 wheels on the nose and the 2 wheels on the tail have the same diameter, and the two wheels on the center with a smaller diameter (this difference of diameter will create the turn radius).(if using five wheel for each line so the diameter of the wheels have to be reduce progressively from the nose and the tail to the middle.)
- Using a parabolic board with a defined radius and all wheels with the same diameter.

The wheels have to be small, unidirectionnal and like motocycle tire (they have grip even on the side)

I think this construction can give us the feeling of edges on the snow... but i'm not sure we can find wheels adapted and sufficiently strong/solid for doing this...

With my english pratice i'm not sure than everybody can understand what i mean exactly, but this is not a negative critic of the job you make... just my feeling after watching your work.
And it's true that i speak without any skwheel test...
So it's possible that my vision is absolutely wrong and probably a solution exist with skateboard trucks to create the perfect skwheel who can satisfy all levels of skwalers...

In any case : It's a pleasure for me to see your motivation and skwal passion, thanks to you to take time to create things in skwal direction....
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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby sabestian » 02 Dec 2011 22:58

@ Obi One, I am thinking about bindings but I will use them only when I figure out a release system. Safety first. I have been longboarding long enough to know better :lol:

Cants? I haven't thought about them. I am bow-legged, you may have a point here. I will look into it.

@ Philobédo, with regards to wheels, remember about one thing - the contact area. It is fundamental on asphalt, the bigger the better, unlike skwal's edge/snow contact. I am afraid that in-line wheels may not have enough of it. It is the same as with sport motorcycles that will not outcorner or outbrake a sport car. That's why, in my opinion, in-line leaning wheels may not be enough to withstand centrifugal force.

In longboarding there are RKP (reversed kingpin trucks) and conventional (and other, more or less experimental). For carving and high speeds RKP are recommended. These differ in feel from conventional trucks (classic short board or skateboard trucks). I think they offer the most traction from all possible solutions. Not feel, mind, but traction. To test the feel, we would have to compare different concepts head to head. Skwheel meeting anyone? 8)

I am not sure about the reflexes and bad habits. I am a begginer, and I feel a clear progress. Not sure with the more advanced riders. You may be right here, I am not good enough a skwaler to comment on this.

Philobedo, please build a prototype and ride it. Your ideas may push the skwheel idea forward by miles! Try it, test it, report here!
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Re: skwheel...a skwal derivate

Postby Philobédo » 04 Dec 2011 11:12

Philobedo, please build a prototype and ride it. Your ideas may push the skwheel idea forward by miles! Try it, test it, report here!


If only i had time to do this...

For skwheel activitie i'm sorry to be and stay only a spectator :oops: , my precedent post is just here to explain another vision of a skwheel construction, with the idea to produce something really similar than skwal.
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